Earlier this month I paid off a car loan I had through Chase. You may remember that I’ve had a few problems with Chase before, so I was happy to finally be finished with them. Unfortunately Chase was not finished with me.
According to Chase’s website, my loan was paid off in full on July 6th and the account was closed on the 8th. On July 9th, I received a letter from Chase notifying me that the account had been “fully satisfied”, along with a small overpayment refund check.
On July 21st, 13 days after my account was supposedly closed and 12 days after Chase had informed me in writing that the loan was fully satisfied, Chase withdrew a payment of $687.10 from my checking account (which is at another bank).
I noticed the withdrawal late Thursday night and immediately filed a transfer inquiry via Chase’s website telling them to refund the erroneous charge. Friday morning I received a response saying that the payment was not erroneous and had been submitted according to my instructions. I was told to call a 1-800 number to request a refund.
I called the number immediately, waded through the usual onerous phone menus, and eventually reached an operator only to discover that I had been given the number for Chase’s mortgage division, not the auto finance division. The operator gave me another number, which turned out to be the credit card division. Finally, after realizing Chase couldn’t be trusted even to get their own phone numbers right, I found the correct number on the website and reached a human being.
It was clear as soon as I explained the situation that this was not an uncommon occurrence. The representative I spoke to told me that Chase had withdrawn the payment because I had not deactivated my automatic loan payments after paying off the loan. I pointed out that the automatic payment authorization I had given authorized Chase to withdraw payments “for the life of the loan”, and that since I had paid off the loan and Chase had informed me the account was closed, I expected the “life of the loan” to be complete. I’ve paid off three other auto loans through various banks over the years, and this has always been the case.
She countered that Chase’s interpretation of “for the life of the loan” is actually “for the original terms of the loan”. Since it was a 72-month loan and I had paid it off in 13 months, Chase would continue withdrawing payments for the full 72 months unless I manually canceled the automatic payments.
“So, if you keep deducting money from a customer’s account when there’s nothing for that money to actually pay for, where does the money go?” I asked her.
“It goes into a holding account until the customer calls and asks for a refund,” she replied.
I pointed out that that’s exactly what I was doing, and she said that I needed to fax an explanation and a copy of my bank statement showing the withdrawal to Chase’s research department, which would “investigate my claim”.
“I’m not making a claim,” I told her. “I’m telling you to return the money that you stole from my bank account without authorization. That’s a fact, not a claim.”
She launched into another scripted explanation of the meaning of “for the life of the loan” and how it’s the customer’s responsibility to cancel the automatic payments.
“So you’re saying that because Chase is too cheap to develop working software, it’s Chase’s policy to hold customers’ money hostage until the customer proves, to Chase’s satisfaction, that their money is rightfully theirs?”
“No, you just need to call and ask for a refund.”
“I just did that and you told me I have to file a ‘claim’ with the research department so that they can ‘investigate’.”
“Well…yes…”
I gave up on the conversation, got the fax number for the research department, faxed them the required information, and have naturally heard nothing back. My money remains in limbo and, according to the woman I spoke to, may remain in limbo for seven business days before the research department concludes their “investigation”, if in fact they even received my fax in the first place.
If I don’t hear from Chase within the promised seven business days, I plan to contact my bank and dispute the withdrawal as fraudulent.
Update (2009-08-05): Chase says the check's in the mail.
Comments
Ouch
That is some seriously brain-dead corporate behavior right there. Here’s hoping you get your money back soon.
Chase Sucks
This sucks, dude. I hope you get your money back.
It’s sad that companies only pay attention when they start getting negative PR when this kind of shit goes viral (front page reddit is a start).
banks suck
I’ve always wondered – if a bank is a web property, they’ll never get away with such nonsense.
(Currently wrestling with Wells Fargo idiocy.)
Good luck chasing the chase.
Chase em
Well they are called “Chase” Bank….tis not for nothing! =)
You don't wait seven days to call your bank.
You call them NOW. You tell them that there are unauthorised, illegal, fraudulent transactions taking place and that it is to stop immediately. Make them get your money back.
consumer ACH transactions
often the withdrawl that chase is making is achieved via an ACH debit origination transaction. if this is the case, you can call the bank at which the account is held and state that the last received ACH debit was not authorized. Your bank may then be able to reverse the transaction to the debit orignator (chase bank), at which point it will be chase’s problem (they would have to prove that the transaction was in fact authorized by you. i believe consumer debit entries can be reversed up to 60days after the transaction.
check with your bank however, it’s been a long time since i’ve dealt with NACHA rules, and chase may not be using ACH for these transactions.
A positive spin
Well look at it this way, they’re helping you setup a savings account without you having to do anything. Figure 687.00 a month into the “Holding account” for the remaining 59 months comes out to 40,538.90…well just sayin.
But get ya money back man.
Call your bank now
and file a fraudulent withdrawal claim with them. Jumping through Chase’s hoops to get your money back is their attempt to look better on paper because it was all resolved in-house. I would have called my bank and file a complaint with the BBB on the day I noticed the charges. I always think of it as what would happen if it was I who accidentally took $700 from {bank_name}.
Take them to Small Claims
Contact them with a letter documenting your case. Then follow through by filing a Small Claims ($30-50 filing fee) court case.
contact your bank now
You’re not seriously going to wait for a company with obviously poor business practices before filing a claim with your bank? The clock is ticking. You’ve discovered the theft and any delay in reporting this fraudulent transaction can only leave questions in the mind of your bankers. Get on the phone now to your bank and request an immediate reversal, stating that the transfer was not authorised (it wasn’t, the life of your loan is past). Be prepared to fax them a copy of the document stating that your Chase account was closed. As another commenter noted, report them to the better business bureau. This is a very shady practice, and may well be illegal.
This Needs A National Presence!!
Submit your article to The Consumerist. They’ll be all over it.
http://consumerist.com/
.................
I suggest someone throw a brick through a Chase Window every time someone reports something like this. I can promise those plate windows cost more than $700. You’re wasting time fighting them on a legal basis and they make money out of thin air. Fight them IRL.
Contact your State Attorney General
Be sure to contact your state’s attorney general, and let Chase know that you have done so.
Funny
I found this post amusing purely for the fact you believed that banks would work with honour and integrity. When will we ever learn.
Good on you for following up. It is standard bank practice to slip payments past customers and use apathy to help them get away with it.
Call your bank now..
I’d call your bank RIGHT NOW and dispute the charge as fraudulent..
Sue them
Yeah, call your bank and then slap their charge happy asses with a suit. That’s what happens when you steal money from customers, you get sued.
sheep get sheared
When you give someone access to your checking account how can you be surprised when they steal your money? And that goes double when the person is a “legal person” such as a corporation.
This is the US. Morality and ethics mean nothing and business is everything.
Money is leverage.
Thanks for the warning!
I will make sure I never have any dealings with Chase, and pass the warning on.
The two aren't linked.
You’re complaining about chase providing a service and then you being confused about the exact conditions of that service, and then complaining about the method in which chase goes about correcting issues that result from people being confused about that service?
Complaining about taking you way more time than it should have to get to the right person is completely understandable, as is not liking the additional requirement to find a fax machine, but you are obviously taking those frustrations and using them to beat up the company when you should be using them to learn a thing or two about contracts you enter into, or a calm not for others to realize that ‘life of the loan’ might mean ‘originally agreed to length of the loan’ when they are setting up automatic payments.
If not for the extended phone time and faxing requirement, your rant boils down to ‘I have to DO something if I pay of the loan early instead of just tell you?!!!!’
Don't ever authorize automatic payments for anything
This is an example of why you should never authorize automatic withdrawals from your bank accounts. (And having said that, I must admit that I have authorized automatic withdrawals from my account to one payee, my health insurance provider. I shouldn’t have done that).
Make sure to read the agreement first, but...
if Chase’s interpretation is not correct it could be theft. File a police report.
Not to be a dick, but...
When will you guys learn to stop supporting these big banks and instead go with smaller banks or credit unions?
Mr.
Electronic Payments
It sounds like you arranged to allow Chase to withdraw the monthly payments from your bank account. Not the way to go. I’ve heard other people having similar problems. A better option is to arrange for e-payments from your bank (not all banks have this, but it is a great feature). This way you control the payments, not the lender. Check out Schwab bank or BofA checking accounts for e-bill payments. Schwab also pays interest on their checking account.
Sue Em
1. Go to the police and get a police report made reporting them for theft.
2. Sue them in small claims court. Charge them with consumer fraud and seek attorney’s fees and treble damages, if your state allows it. (As mine does.)
3. They will settle with you because the first appearance an attorney makes for them will cost them more. In some states, a lawyer cannot appear for them; others, one has to.
Credit Unions
@Tony Lambiris I’d be glad to go with a credit union….. But Bank of America doesn’t require me to have $17,000 in my account and not to go under $17,000 like the credit union in my area does…. I don’t have that kind of money right now to NOT use..
Got a fraudulent charge on your account? Fed Reg E it!
Go to your bank within 60 days of the charge, or as soon as you know about the charge, don’t delay, and tell them that there has been fraudulent activity within your account. Explain that you wish to file a dispute, and demand that they assist you in accordance with Federal Regulation E.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/
Charge Them Interest
I say you create an invoice reflecting the amount they stole from you and the same interest rate they charged you for the loan and submit it to their accounts payable department. The way it is currently worked out, you’re basically involuntarily giving them money to invest with and therefor acquire some semblance of a profit against while you have no access to funds that are rightfully yours. Invoice them, charge them interest, and then send them to a collection agency and set up an arbitrary string of bureaucratic hoops for them to jump through to avoid paying you interest…Or sue them for internet fraud, identity theft, and larceny.
Why I don't...
This is a prime example of why under no circumstances will I allow automatic withdraws from my accounts.
damn skippy.
yeah, I’m with Mike July 29, 2009 @ 10:45 AM (PDT) on this.. auto-withdrawals are evil. Hell if I could I’d keep all my cash on hand, at all times
Business as usual
Hate to break it to you, but that is normal business practices from almost any company that you allow auto debits from. All banks, financial institutions, lending institutions, and anyone charging you a bill will do the same thing given the chance. I would know I work for a bank, and have for many years. ACH debits from people’s accounts are the reason for 90% of all accountholder headaches that I have seen. Filing a dispute with your bank is always the easiest way to get your money back. Good luck.
Chase Sux
I feel you.. That is horrible!! I will never use Chase for anything again.. They are dirty. They took ALL my money out of my bank account before I could pay any bills for a voluntary repo before I had a chance to pay them back or anything, less then a month after they sold it. Even though this is legal, they handled it HORRIBLY! I thought they would at least ask me about making payments or something?? NOPE.. Never got a chance & they went & lowered all my credit cards down to nothing.. Leaving me with no money to pay mortgage, other bills, or feed my kids… It has been such a bad experiment.. I was not avoiding them at all, I have been waiting to find out when they sold the vehicle & got the letter on a Saturday, called that Monday, the guy asked so you received the letter, I stated yes just Saturday & the phone was disconnected. I guess he just wanted to know that, by the next day $3800 was taken out of my bank account. WOW.. I just wished they handled things differently & I wasn’t having to try to sell everything I own to keep my kids fed, I am alone with my kids & all the bills.. So it has been HARD…
Good Luck to you because I know Chase does not care too much about their customers, they were very rude to me & uncompasionate. It’s one thing to do your “job”, but it’s another to talk to people like they are dirt. I have worked collections & was never so ugly.
ACH auto debit: don't do it.
ya, that happened to me once 20 yrs ago (but it was an insurance company and it was
a small amount of money, like $20). when i asked to have it back, the ins company said
“sorry, you have to notify us in writing, blah blah”. i canceled the policy with them, and never
allowed direct debit from an account ever again. just use auto-bill-pay to initiate
transfers, or credit card auto-pay if you absolutely must have auto-pay. using these methods, at
least you are insulated from the payee and have the ability to cancel checks or
do chargebacks if there is an error in payment.
I had the exact same thing happen to me...
I had the exact same thing happen to me with Chase. They are just really lame!!! I did send the fax and did get a check within a week. Make sure you cancel your monthly payment or you’ll have the same ordeal next month!
Beware of Chase
Now I know how Chase can post such high profits after being baled out by Uncle Sam. Creative accounting and giving run around messages keep the money in their control for a longer time. Just think the amount of money they sit on for even a few days can make a huge difference in their bottom line. I have finally moved away from Chase and moved my account to a Credit Union, who has seen a huge increase in their business since Chase took over Washington Mutual.
Same Thing
The same exact thing happened to me today. I wish there was a way to get my money back quicker than be given the run-around by their endless staff/departments. CHase is a mess.